No ai aggression

    I dont understand why this is not being addressed. I know there are several people having this issue. Every game i have played which is quite a few, I play on hard and not one time has a major dynasty ever made an attack. They simply do not attack at all. Its not a minor nerf, they are completely passive. They kill each other but not one bomb, firebomb, attack on my characters, nothing. The only time im ever attacked at all is by minor dynasty rogues. Never a major dynasty with an actual crest. Is this even being looked into??? I have seen several people mention this but never has it been properly addressed, id imagine a completely useless broken AI should be the number one bug fix, no?

    I have only ever been attacked once, some thugs from a real dynasty came and threw torches at my house, on the duchy of dragenthal map.


    The robbers come and try to pillage or extort my buildings and burglars try to rob them, but I don't consider those to be attacks on me, more of just the ai for those buildings do those things against any building given the opportunity.


    Thieves also tried to kidnap me once, but they were from a fake dynasty, i wasn't even feuding with them, again just building AI i think.


    I would love to see groups of thugs trying to kill me, especially if i was accusing their dynasty of a crime, I would love to actually lose a character to an attack from aggressive AI. Right now the most threatening thing the enemy can do is prosecute you for a crime.

    Errr.. It happened.. Just maybe the frequency is very very low..


    I had some thugs from some minor dynasty killed my character before.. Maybe I'm too evil.... I was looking elsewhere, and suddenly "One of your family is death". I was like shocked and load back my savegame to actually see 2 thugs already following my character and strike him a little while later.. After hitting him down, they kill him... >.<"


    I have seen several times they attempt kidnap on my character if left unguarded on open ground (no bailiffs and guards).. Even in the middle of the city, the thieves attempted to kidnap me before, only to be ended up dead...
    However, they're from minor dynasty... The one with royal crest never attacked.. They'll mostly blackmail you or charge you in court, and have the accuser to be guarded.. (not a big deal to me XD)

    Is this being looked at Nirvana? I mean this is kindof a big deal seeing as it makes what can potentially be a great game quite boring. Whats the point of playing with no real challange? I dont even make thugs anymore in my games because i really dont ever need them lol

    Well id like to know under what patch u played under where u had that happen because most people on the forums are agreeing that major dynastys do not make any aggressive attacks at all. I have played over ten games into the 1460s, and had not one single aggressive attack on any of my buildings in any game. Many people have had the same experiences....

    I had my buildings sabotaged, burned, burgled etc. several times.

    I don't know if you have noticed, but this game is NOT a combat or war game.

    And the one mostly complaining about this is you, you've posted this issue several times.
    Perform a poll in the forums and get a vote on that.

    But again, I repeat, it's NOT a combat or war game. :)

    The AI isn't aggressive in any aspect really. They can not compete with the player in any aspect of the game, military, politics, or economy.


    The AI never gets to the title nobleman so they can't compete politically, all their soldiers are always escorting, maybe if they had more they would attack but they almost never do. And I very rarely see the AI with over 2 businesses so they can not compete economically.


    this is not supposed to be a war game but it is quite hard to win politically( sentenced to death and cardinal's inquisitions. And nearly impossible to win economically(enemy has to end 2 turns in a row with negative balance) I had it happen once in a 1v1, i think AI was glitched and did not make anything at their carpenter's shop.


    So this is not supposed to be a war game but unfortunately it is. From that there are two choices, make it not a war game, or make it more challenging as a war game.


    has anyone ever won without massacring the AI with 12 dynasties?


    now now... let me reply to your post.. I would have to agree with Jacqvern.. This is a not a war game, if it is, why don't you go try build 10 houses and hired everyone in the city and attacked the bailiffs.. You'll never win..


    Why?? Because it's OBVIOUS.. It's not a war game... You cannot use force to end the game.... And I've seen major AI dynasty ExTREMELY RICH!! >.<" almost 5 times my amount of money in the beginning of the game.. Around 500k when I only have 100k.. There's no way for me to kill him either.. He is always thug-protected... The only way I use the Cardinal to have him murdered.. But once I did that, the AI intelligent enuf to convert to my faith, and my cardinal become useless.. X(


    I have tried no war game with 12 dynasty.. I never won that game due to bug.. But 5 dynasties die off by themselves.. And there's a plague in the city where I'm busy countering it until my bug occur.. >.<"


    I know the AI have not been fixed to climb up political ladders, but they do conduct extortion if they have a robber camp.. >.<" And I've seen them financially rich.. The only reason they didn't win, is that I'm playing on Extinction.. If I were to play at mission 'Get rich', I would have lost already.. >.<"


    Are you expecting a game that you get robbed/kidnapped/attacked everyday?? Cause this game relives those time of Renaissance and there's not so many war (as you name it) that happen everyday.. If you're hoping for such game, I supposed it time maybe you should write your own game then...

    Thank you for suggesting that 10 house thing it was very fun. and it is an extremely good way to get XP for family members. i loaded up one of my old games with 250k cash and 1.8 M assets. 10 patrician houses = 50 soldiers. I put them all at the market in hamburg, and started attacking guards. I lost about 1 soldier for every 10 guards I killed. The guards come in groups of around 5. once those 5 are dead the others don't come and attack you, when they just happened to walk by i killed them. With that many thugs you can do whatever you want, i killed several enemy family members in the middle of town and 5 guards attack and they are cut down with in a few seconds.


    after about 6 in game hours i got bored and checked my main character(who was standing there but never got involved) he had 9743 xp. The guards keep getting re hired but the new ones don't care that i killed the old ones they will walk right by.


    you said "You cannot use force to end the game"


    How do you personally end the game then?


    I use force to end games almost every time. It only takes 5 thugs, just stand out on a road and all the important enemies will walk by eventually, occasionally you get one that cannot be attacked due to their office so i duel them.


    why does it matter if he is thug protected?, thugs go down very easily.



    i did all of this hard, the enemy never has over one thug escort and i have never seen an enemy with over 200k assets.


    i have never had my characters attacked by thugs, my house has been attacked once. I have never been sabotaged.


    They tried to kidnap me once, and my carts get waylayed, they try to extort and plunder buildings, but all of that is done because of the ai of buildings, they don't care if i am and enemy or neutral, their targets seems to be selected by $ worth not faction relations, unless you are allied with them.


    The factions never do anything aggressive, meaning with thugs or main characters. What I mean is they never try to eliminate you.


    it sounds like you get a bit more of a challenge, what settings, map, and number of dynasties do you play with to get that?


    i play on hard, 12 dynasties, and on the Hansa.



    also the enemy never uses political abilities like business inspectors, torture, or repealing immunity.

    Zitat von Septus


    The AI never gets to the title nobleman so they can't compete politically, all their soldiers are always escorting, maybe if they had more they would attack but they almost never do. And I very rarely see the AI with over 2 businesses so they can not compete economically.



    Well, you're wrong. The AI gets the title nobleman and upper. I have a king in my hometown and of course they are noblemen, in order to be elected in the upper levels. Some other dynasties are too and two of them are barons and 2nd level barons.
    The number of businesses depends also on the number of dynasties chosen for a game. There is a finite number of businesses that a city can have the space for. So the more dynasties, the less space for businesses, it's not unlimited.

    Anyhow, in the beta versions, Nirvana has already mentioned that the aggressiveness is lowered to deal with other things, in order to fix the bugs. They are beta though, and it won't remain like that. In 4.15 it's higher.

    Also, in one of my games (one of beta versions), my rogue character was charged in another city, and I tried 4 times, each time with a different way, to change the course and not have him executed - bribing the participants, threaten them, keeping the prosecutor from attending trial, even killing him in the woods - it was very difficult.

    So, it's not that easy from many aspects. For example, play 4.15 version and try to beat the plague. That's a very nice challenge and etc.

    (The only thing that I somewhat agree regarding titles, is that the prices are very high for the titles. But, it is very easy to change that and lower the prices for each title.)

    Seriously, i have no idea what game you are playing. I have played about 20 games into the 1450s, and not one time was i ever sabtoaged, businous inspected, poisoned, toad shitted, tortured, attacked or assaulted by any of the major dynastys. The occasional burglary from the minor dynastys or an attack on my carts from the minor dynastys, but the major dynastys do absolutly nothing to create challenge. And while it may not be a war game, there is no challenge in the game at all because u are never competed against. Its flat put boring. There is no reason to even use thugs unless u plan on being offensive because u are almost never attacked! Im not looking for a war game, but i am looking for a competant AI who is able to pose a significant challenge or even some challenge at all. As of now its laughable. i could care less if u want to be a fanboy or not, what i say is a fact. the major dynatsys do nothing.

    Please, there's no need to write in such a tone. There are no fanboys here and if someone says that he has a problem you can take that as a fact (same thing if someone says he doesn't has the same problem).


    Again: As soon as I have the time to I'll look into this issue. We didn't change AI aggression in general so it's a bit strange that some people seem to experience no aggressive AI actions at all (we only changed serious actions like murder).

    Just a thought here, but rather than thinking about AI aggression in general could we perhaps think about it based on the player's relationship with other dynasties?

    For example, if I'm on good terms with a faction they shouldn't be aggressive toward me at all. If I'm on horrible terms they would obviously be much more aggressive. This is already built in to some extent I think, but is it possible to modify it so that there is even more distinction?

    Along with this would probably need to be a modification of how quickly relationships decay and can be built up, because right now it's fairly easy to gain and lose favor (although some times it's damn hard to get people to like you). Favor does decay over time pretty quickly though. If this process were a little slower it would allow the aggression of enemy dynasties to be ramped up a lot while not ruining the game for people who are willing to "play nice" with other dynasties.

    Again, just some thoughts - I know programming this stuff is infinitely harder than conceptualizing it.

    Zitat von mjsegaline

    Seriously, i have no idea what game you are playing. I have played about 20 games into the 1450s, and not one time was i ever sabtoaged, businous inspected, poisoned, toad shitted, tortured, attacked or assaulted by any of the major dynastys. The occasional burglary from the minor dynastys or an attack on my carts from the minor dynastys, but the major dynastys do absolutly nothing to create challenge. And while it may not be a war game, there is no challenge in the game at all because u are never competed against. Its flat put boring. There is no reason to even use thugs unless u plan on being offensive because u are almost never attacked! Im not looking for a war game, but i am looking for a competant AI who is able to pose a significant challenge or even some challenge at all. As of now its laughable. i could care less if u want to be a fanboy or not, what i say is a fact. the major dynatsys do nothing.



    Well, it's rather difficult to be a fanboy, since I'm a female...the last time I checked that is...;)

    And in the tone that you are using > I could care less if what you say it's a fact or not. You say so, but in the tone you're writing, it's rather difficult to be taken much into consideration.
    So, you should watch your tone, you're bordering on being very rude, whereas the rest of us have been polite with you.

    Moreover, if you consider the game "laughable" then maybe you should not play it or enjoy the laugh with it. Same goes if you consider it flat and boring.
    Games are made as they are, with the history and course they have, we like a game or not, and no one forces us or you to play it.

    We all suggest improvements that we would like to be made, but not in such a pressing way, with a spoiled, childlike and insulting tone.

    You mentioned your point, there is NO need to flood the forum with repeating posts about the same thing, over and over again. We got it the first time and maybe if you were more polite, I would have been more understanding to your concerns.
    Additionally, you can NOT impose to us to agree with you, and nonetheless you can NOT be rude and insulting when someone disagrees!

    The fanboy (or fan-woman as it goes)

    Well you being female would explain why you would not notice the lack of aggression. Females play games like the sims and find enjoyment. Men like something a bit more challenging and "war" like.

    I "flood" the forums because the issue needs to be noticed in order for it to be fixed. When carebears like you run around making the AI seem dandy, things dont get fixed... If you notice, the majority of people reguarding this issue are having similar problems with the aggression.

    I would also like to add that there is a difficulty slider for a reason, when im playing on the hardest setting and still get the aggression of a limp dick, thats an issue. Go play the sims and have fun, this is a big boy game

    P.S Its just alittle annoying havin someone tell me im crazy and the AI is aggressive when we all have played the game on the same patch and know there is NO aggression. The real issue we are having is that some of you are ok with the lack of aggression and some of us are not. The issue is not however if there is or isnt aggression, because clearly there is not.

    Nirvana, my intention is not to be rude, but I am a direct person. Im not going to apologise for telling it how it is.

    That aside... I have been playing Pirates of the euro seas with the sovreign mod. The AI is quite aggressive and rather fun on that game, im not a modder, but perhaps you can do a parallel diagnostic between the AI script files of that game in comparance to yours. Maybe you can pick something up that way. Think that would work?



    Well, you made me laugh with the above post, I have to thank you for that, I enjoyed it. :happy: (especially the "big boys game" he he)

    However, the sad part is that it shows you are so prejudiced that you lose the credibility you want to show in your posts.

    A tip: before going around characterizing people you do not know anything about, you should know better what you are talking about, not to make a fool of yourself.

    And for history: I've never played the sims, I don't like that kind of games, and I have played war and combat games and enjoyed it, actually quite a lot :lol:
    And no, I don't need an apology from you, it seems that it's not worth a thing...